Former Seattle Sonics great Shawn Kemp wants everyone to know that Michael Jordan wasn’t responsible for beating his during the 1996 NBA Finals.

Earlier this week, Kemp appeared on All The Smoke Podcast to discuss the Sonics-Bulls Finals.

During his appearance, Kemp was adamant that Dennis Rodman was more valuable for the Bulls at the time than Jordan.

“Michael wasn’t the reason, he didn’t beat us,” Kemp said. “We was on his a–. Dennis Rodman was the one who beat us. We had no answer for Dennis Rodman. Every time that they needed a second shot or something special or an extra rebound, he was flying and winking and kissing.”

According to Kemp, Rodman distracted Frank Brickowski so much with his antics that Brickowski couldn’t keep up.

“He would be like he was trying to kiss Frank’s arm,” Kemp said. “Frank couldn’t take it. The man in him just couldn’t allow it. Dennis knew what buttons to push. We needed Frank to rebound.”